One Paseo, More Comparisions to Local Developments
I'm not against the idea of a large, mixed use project in Carmel Valley. In fact, I support the general idea (if it's at the right scale.) However, I believe the developer of the One Paseo, San Diego project is not providing a true picture of what the project will look like, and we deserve full disclosure for a project of this magnitude. So, until Kilroy gives us some good comparisons, I'll continue to look for my own. See the One Paseo section for more posts on this subject and the One Paseo image.
Here's a Picture of the La Jolla Crossroads (click for larger image) development in UTC (or, click here for google maps). I first thought this was way too dense for comparison, but I now believe it's not that far off -- 5 stories of residential (One Paseo is 5 to 6 stories), and the four buildings along Sydney Ct. (click for google maps) are about the same length as the Del Mar Heights Road frontage of One Paseo (click for google maps). That is, if you look at the Google Maps view, the 4 buildings on the right are similar in size an scale to what is being proposed for residential development along Del Mar Heights Road in Carmel Valley. Not exact, but similar (I believe these buildings have a bit larger footprint, but the height and density are similar. If Kilroy has a better comparison or any comments, I'd love to post it.)
Update: Kilroy claims that "Most of the residential proposed is 4 stories as it faces the outside community, mirroring the other residential on the other side of Del Mar Heights Road." I don't see how this makes sense. The residential across the street is 2 stories, not 4 or 5. And, their own One Paseo Detailed Site Plan shows 5 and 6 story buildings along Del Mar Heights, although it could be 4 and 5 story, with the 5 and 6 story buildings reserved for "Main Street". And, what about that 10 story residential tower at High Bluff... More info, Kilroy? Please?
As a reality check, here's an image of those same four La Jolla Crossroads buildings overlayed on the One Paseo site (images from Google Maps). I believe I've kept the same scale, you're welcome to check my work:
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I Support One Paseo
I take great exception to derisive comments being made about your fellow community members who happen to have a different view of the One Paseo project. I support the project, a position I came to after carefully reviewing the proposal and speaking directly with the developer about any lingering questions – not, as you suggest, because I “like to look at pictures and not read the fine print.”
Much like the cropped images you choose to display in your posts, they are only a snippet of the full One Paseo website, which in fact puts it all out there. There are detailed site plans – complete with heights, square footage and unit counts – all on full display. They are not withholding anything from you or me – but I understand that doesn’t work with your storyline.
I hope the fresh air and community atmosphere of the future Main Street plaza will make us all more neighborly than the anonymous blogosphere.
Did you look?
It's fine to support the project, but I believe people should really see what they're getting first. Did you click on the small image, above, to see what the La Jolla Crossroads project really looks like? Did you visit La Jolla Crossroads? It's just up the street, off I-805 at La Jolla Village Drive. It's massive. And, until Kilroy gives us a better picture of what One Paseo will look like, I suspect it's the best approximation out there.
Oh, and that's just the residential/retail part of the development. It doesn't include the parking structure, the 2 large (8 to 10 story) office buildings, or the 10 story residential tower on High Bluff.
I believe the developers are counting on the fact that it's really hard to imagine how big this project is going to be, so we'll just approve it because we all want a community center. Well, I want a community center, but I'd like it with 2 or 3 story residential, more like the rest of the community. I don't need any reduction in the office or retail, I just want a few stories cut off the residential being proposed (and remove the 10 story residential tower!)
Ughhh
Been reading this for a while and have to add some points. Taller buildings actually allow for more space at ground level. There is nothing wrong with a 10 story building along High Bluff. You don't know the avg. sqft of each unit so your analysis of this could be way off. But again 10 stories for this area is fine it's a commercial/office environment already.
I don't understand your point...
I don't want to spread out the proposed 600 units over a larger area, I want to reduce the number of residential units without changing the footprint. The developer has no "right" to build this many units. Everything that's not commercial space (all the retail, residential and hotel) is above and beyond their existing development rights, and they're looking for permission to add it to the community plan.
One Paseo doesn't have to be this big, and we don't have to maximize Kilroy's profit. Would One Paseo really be that different if there were "only" 300 residential units (instead of 600)?
Sure, this area is commercial, but it also borders a two story residential neighborhood and all the other commercial buildings at the corner are 2 story (slowly getting larger as you drive down High Bluff.) Putting a 4 story residential unit on this corner (much less the proposed 10 story residential tower!) would be out of scale and out of character for the area.
Kilroy talks about how they're putting the tall buildings at the bottom of the slope, so they won't tower over everything. However, they always fail to mention the 10 story building at the top of the slope...
What would you think if someone put a 10 story tower across the street from your house? You might argue that your neighborhood's community plan doesn't allow such development, but that would be true of the High Bluff corner, as well. In fact, the precise plan for the lot specifically requires that the project to spread the development over the acreage as multiple buildings, and to maintain view corridors between the buildings so that you can see down from High Bluff and Del Mar Heights to the community below.
Ughhh part 2
Your words..."I'm not against the idea of a large, mixed use project in Carmel Valley""I don't want to spread out the proposed 600 units over a larger area, I want to reduce the number of residential units without changing the footprint. The developer has no "right" to build this many units."....I think i now know which one is your real opinion. "Would One Paseo really be that different if there were "only" 300 residential units (instead of 600)?"I believe so. Do you want a ghost town or a vibrant area? Do you want all your shoppers to drive or some to walk?
You don't know
Please don't try to put words in my mouth or say things like "I think I know which is your real opinion", because you'll be wrong. All of these things are my opinion and none of them are mutually exclusive. You can have a large, mixed use project that isn't as large as what is proposed. You can be for the idea of a mixed use project without being for this specific project. You can want residential without wanting it so massive or imposing.
Personally, I'd love to see something much smaller, more like the Del Mar Plaza with added office, hotel and residential.
I'm here fighting for a vision of Carmel Valley that's more like a small town and less like a high-density urban shopping plaza. I'm fighting for the vision that the developers keep showing us in their glossy pictures -- a 2 to 3 story village with places to walk and places to congregate.
FWIW, I've been here 20 years, volunteered at 3 schools, run the summer concerts and a community website, been a member of the recreation council and the planning board, served on numerous subcommittees. I've also been involved with this project from the very start of community involvement, so I know what's going on. I really want a mixed use project at this site and I am part of the "community support" that Kilroy claims for One Paseo. However, what they've proposed is too much for me: too tall, too dense, too massive.
Again, if the project is so great, why doesn't Kilroy show us the whole thing? What are they hiding?
A ghost town?
I suppose you think the Town Center across the street is currently a ghost town... It has no residential units at all, and it's so busy you almost can't find parking. I don't believe that 300 units is going to swing the balance one way or the other, but I do believe going from 2 or 3 stories along Del Mar Heights up to 4 or 5 stories (with a 10 story tower) will dramatically change the character of the community.